Last weekend I finally decided to try Speed Dating. Speed Dating is where you go to the speed dating place, usually a club or bar, and you spend 5 minutes meeting each partner. Every person has a number. You mark the numbers of the people you enjoyed talking to and that you think you would like to meet again and if they also marked you down then the host will send your contact info to each other.
I was a little worried because last weekend it was supposed to snow and even though it didn’t snow it was very cold and rainy but surprisingly everyone showed up. There were 17 women and 18 men so each round one guy had to sit out, no big deal since it was only for 5 minutes. The host would blow his whistle and you’d have 5 minutes to chat up your current partner. Then a minute break to switch tables, girls stay put, guys move. Every 4-5 rounds and they’d have a 20 minute break so it took about 2 1/2 hours.
I was also of course a little worried that the there wouldn’t be many nice women. I’m not sure where I got that idea but actually they were almost all universally nice. Women who were clearly not desperate.
It was actually very cool. I’ve gone to quite a few singles parties and it’s hard to excuse myself to move on to talk to the next person. Even if the person I’m talking to is someone I might be intersted in I’d like to meet a few more people. In Speed Dating though you don’t need an excuse to talk to the next person. The bell rings in 5 minutes. If nothing works out I will certainly try it again.
Of the 17 there were I think 6 I marked down as yes. That’s not to say I couldn’t have marked down more but I kind of just went with my gut. 3 in particular I really liked. Of the ones I marked down, 3 marked me as well so we’ll see how it goes.
Not to brag but I’m actually a little surprised I didn’t get marks from at least 5 of those 6. One clearly had a bad attitude and was just there to support here friend but I thought I was quite the catch so I’m surprised I didn’t get a mark from the other 2. I certainly did a great job of talking for 5 minutes to pretty much all of the women 
In fact, 5 minutes seemed really short but they really can’t give you more time or it would take forever. Besides, while I’m sure there are exceptions, I do believe you can generally kind of get a feel for if you want to hang out with someone in 5 minutes.
there is a US one called friendster.com, one in Hong Kong (where i live)called ba8ua.com, must be one similiar in Japan ?
Yesterday it was 85 degrees F and sunny in Santa Monica, California…
– anonnanana
Call me stupid but I don’t know how to use those sites to find a girlfriend. I’m on friendster, orkut, in Japan there is gree and mixi. I’ve never met anyone on those. The most I’ve done is had an old friend contact me and that’s it.
Not to be disrespectful, but if you are “looking” for a girlfriend, you’re going to scare them away.
Since you’ve talked about your love of Hawaiian culture, have you thought of joining a “Hawaiian club”? “Hawaiians” always seem to find each other-no matter where they are. Maybe Tokyo has such a group? Hawaiians love food, music (kanikapila) and ‘talk story’.
I enjoy your site. Thanks.
“if you are ‘looking’ for a girlfriend, you’re going to scare them away.”
Not if they’re also “looking.”
When one’s hobbies (such as programming) aren’t conducive to meeting girlfriends, then going to a social group that is conducive is not only boring, it’s dishonest, because the women you meet will think you’re there for the hobby. If you meet someone there, she’s probably going to talk to you about whatever hobby the social group is gathered around, because it’s a hobby you both share. If you didn’t share it, why would you be there? Because there’s trim there? Oh.
The case where the dishonesty balances out is when the woman you meet is also going to the social group to meet men. In that case, what you’ve done is complicated the process of meeting people with a thick layer of bullshit.
As free time becomes more and more valuable, we need to take more bullshit-cutting measures in our lives. The “speed dating” idea is brilliant, it cuts most of the bullshit right out of meeting people, by virtue of everyone knowing why everyone else is there. The rest it cuts out by keeping the conversations short. As Gregg said, one of the biggest problems with meeting people is meeting *boring* people, and the timer allows you to end a boring conversation without hurting anyone’s feelings.
-Jim
I’ve had friends (both sexes) tell me that they got tired of “waiting for love to find them”. So they had an active dating life. They didn’t date anyone and everyone, they were active. Living in a large city, they were able to enjoy themselves, meet people, some they dated (some more than others). Some have even gone through the speed dating drills and one has so far been successful in finding a boyfriend. Whether that’ll last, who can say. So the belief “in waiting” isn’t necessarily the only path to take. As long as you’re having fun, then do what you think will make you happy.
Of course, honesty is a must. No one should join a group that isn’t interesting. You’re right, that is boring, not fun, etc.
Many career people don’t get a chance to meet others, so doing something other than work will get you out there and give you a break from thinking about work.
Glad you had fun with Speed Dating. Good luck.
In my own defense :-p
I do have a relatively active social life. I’ve probably went out on a date with more than 1 new woman a month for the past year or so. That might not be a great number but I bet it’s more than a lot of people.
The problem is IMO that I’m not the type of guy that just goes for looks and pursues the women to get her in bed first, ask questions later. I’m the type of guy that wants to feel some kind of chemisty first. I’m also not that aggressive. I need some CLEAR signals from the woman that she is interested.
In the past, my previous girlfriends have all been friends first for months before anything happened. That gave us a chance to get to know each other natrually until at some point we became interested in each other.
Going out on a blind date or a new date with someone from match.com or speed dating or even a friend of a friend, unless there are sparks, is unlikely to lead to anything in my case because unless there is instant chemistry I need a lot more time before I’m ready to pursue. But, being that there generally isn’t sparks right off and with no clear signals from these woman it peters out pretty quick. I’m not sure if they want to see me and I’m not feeling anything special so I just kind of give up and move on to the next hoping to feel something.
Of course there have been a couple of women for whom I had sparks but they were one sided. The women were not interest in me. There have been a couple the other way as well. They were interested but I wasn’t. I met one that I was interested in and she was interested in me but in the end there was no chemisty. I just need to find one for which we are both interested in each other AND there is chemisty.
If it’s possible to find that in 1 date then it’s just a numbers game and I need to keep meeting as many women as possible until I find one that matches. It should build relatively easy from there.
If it’s not possible then I need to change how I’m approaching this. That’s certainly a possibility.
Well said, Gregg — I know *exactly* where you are coming from. It’s funny, talking to most of my friends, I get the impression that I must sort of be living out some kind of role-reversal with respect to the stereotype that “men just want sex” and women get emotionally attached. While most guys I know seem to be able to at least somewhat separate the flirting/courting/physical side of dating from the emotional level of being “attached” to someone, I have found that I have a real problem doing this. Usually, it seems to be women that say that they end up feeling “used” or “cheap” if they sleep with someone right away and then that person ends up not being interested in them shortly thereafter, but actually, I find that this is actually how I feel as well in that situation. Perhaps it’s a confidence thing…while I don’t think of myself as unattractive, I know that I definitely don’t have “the look” that women immediately go for, so I feel like I have to work a little harder to get their attention than “hot” guys do. Anyway, as a result, if I go to far too fast with someone, it seems like I always end up getting really torn up about it if things don’t work out. I had one relationship in particular that got really intense early on and then blew up shortly thereafter when the woman got back together with her ex. Because of that, I am just really, really cautious now about investing too much trust in someone right away.
Regarding changing your approach / not being aggressive: The point you brought up about not being aggressive is a very good one. I get the impression that so many guys ARE aggressive about seeing how far they can get early on in the dating game that many women have just come to expect everyone to act that way. The downside to that trend is that if a guy is NOT aggressive in that way, women can sometimes get the idea that he’s not interested in anything more than being a casual friend. I’ve been in the worst of all possible situations lately because of this. I have been pining after a longtime friend who has actually told me (after a few drinks) that she basically considers me her boyfriend because I take care of her and am always there for her when she needs someone to talk to, but without specifically spelling it out, she pretty much indicated that she doesn’t think of me as a “prospect”. And the kicker is that she has been dating like crazy lately and actually tells me how all the dates are going as if I am her gay hairdresser!!! It’s horrible, man. My self esteem is in the toilet because of it, and I barely even have any interest in dating at all at this point…So trust me, your “1 new date a month” statistic really ain’t bad at all in comparison!
BionicRoach, it sounds like you might get some good advice from http://www.doubleyourdating.com. If can sound cynical but there is a message in there I think is worth getting out. A lot of his advice boils down to just basic self improvement but basically your story below sounds like a lot of the stories on his mailing list. It might end up being tough love for a while but it’s definately worth reading a few issues.
Thanks, Gregg — I’ll check it out. I’m pretty open to anything right about now. The depression is starting to affect my productivity and well being. I’ve even began to wonder whether I should try to find a good therapist or possibly even see if I have some kind of clinical problem such as high functioning autism (asperger’s syndrome) etc. (I do have A LOT of the symptoms according to the info I’ve found online, but it’s always easy to be a hypochondriac when you’re depressed!
) Maybe I’ll automatically feel a little better if I can get past being so hung up over this one woman, but even so, I’ve consistently had a lot of trouble meeting new people my whole life. The reason I’m wondering whether I have some deeper problem is that I’m not particularly shy in other aspects, i.e., if I get bad service at a restaurant or store, I’m going to speak up about it, I have no problem asserting myself in meetings, doing trainings, giving presentations, or asking my boss for favors or a raise, etc, but I have a lot of trouble blending in to a social group in a party type setting or making small talk and flirting and letting someone know I’m interested without feeling like I have to be weird or silly to get people’s attention (and that usually backfires as everyone looks at me for a second disapprovingly, one person laughs, and then everyone goes back to their conversations)…I’ve also been told a few times (usually by platonic female friends, of course) that they thought someone really liked me even though I didn’t pick up on it at all, which is frustrating. It always leaves me wondering whether they’re just being nice and trying to set me up (set ups never work, btw) or whether I am just completely inept at picking up social cues…sigh. I really don’t know anymore. Thanks for the link, though. I will check it out. Good luck on the speed dating.
Hey Gregg, love your site.
I’m wondering, were you the only foreigner there, or was this a mostly non-japanese people thing? If this was a mostly Japanese thing, how did everyone react to you being a foreigner?
It was a mostly foreign men meeting Japanese women. It’s not limited to that as far as I know but the person organizing it is a foreign man. There was one non-Japanese woman and no Japanese men.
As for Japanese to Japanese there are zillions of match making sites. I haven’t tried any of them except jp.match.com
You said “I need some CLEAR signals from the woman that she is interested”. There’s a word for that. It’s called “timid”. And timidity is a turn off to most women. Try and remember that.
You are probably right about the “timid” thing but that’s just too bad for me. I am who I am. Those women that figure it out have been pretty happy with me. Those that can’t don’t deserve me in the first place.
Besides, it’s not like I’m asking for them to be the agressor and pick me up. All I want is a little encouragement in the form of like even trying to accomidate me asking them out. In other words, if I ask a women out and she says “Sorry I can’t make it but how about next week?” or “Sorry I’m busy that day but I’d like to hang out, what about this?” That’s enough. But if instead I get “Sorry, I’m busy” the end, then that to me makes me feel like I’m wasting my time.
Another example. If I email some women on the cellphone (the most common way to contact people here in Japan). If she responds immediately I take that as a good sign. If she responds by the next day noon I take that as an okay sign as in she was probably busy but go to it before she went to sleep or too tired, got to it on the way to work because she is somewhat interested. If she takes 2 or more days to respond I take that as uninterested or at least not-currently interested.
Those are just minor examples but there are little hints here and there while I’m out with someone. Those little hints suggest to me her interest level. Most guys either are able to see more hints OR just don’t care and pursue anyway. I either can’t see the hints or they aren’t there with most women. In either case, without the positive feedback nothing builds to a relationship.
anonemouse, i think it depends on the lady. i have several friends that are the timid, quiet types and got hotly pursued by women who later became their wives and they’re now happily married. of course, these are folks in america … i have no idea what the japanese ladies do if they’re interested in a “shy guy” …
btw the way, the stereotype of “timid” is not me. But if by “timid” you only mean that I don’t chase them without at least giving some indication that they want to be chased then by that definition I am “timid”. I’ll ask them out once with very little encouragment but beyond that they’ve got to give me some positive feedback or I’ll assume they just aren’t that interested and move on.
hey gregg, unfortunately, that’s what a lot of people seem to refer to as “timid” … though i’m not quite sure why. i suppose the “standards” are different … but then again, perhaps a certain populace lot of women out there aren’t quite sure what they’re looking for in a relationship and (i suppose) the (on the surface) super-aggressive “non-timid” type guy plays into that illusionary fantasy some of them have created … it’s exciting afterall …
It seems that a lot of women are into playing the “hard to get” game as well — perhaps they act disinterested to try and see if the guy really, really wants them or not. This can be a bad thing for the “timid” (I’d prefer to call it “respectful”) guy because he may react to the situation by deciding to give the woman some breathing room, and once he does that, she may assume he’s not interested either and move on.
Another point that I heard someone bring up recently that I’m having a hard time getting my brain around is that for the most part, women are just as interested in having sex as men are, which is why most “aggressive” men are very successful at finding women to have sex with. I have noticed that a lot of women seem to find it attractive when a guy doesn’t “beat around the bush” (sorry) and just goes for it right away. It sounds crazy, but the more I think about it, I have heard a lot of stories from my platonic female friends about guys that they slept with right away just because there was this “amazing chemistry”. (Of course, later on, the relationships never worked out…but the guys got what they wanted.)
My point is that I think that in the eyes of these types of women, the “respectful” guy probably actually comes off as less “virile” and more of a candidate for “friend” material (if they are likeable and their personality is compatible) than a serious dating prospect. For guys like me who get emotionally attached to people they sleep with and are therefore careful about crossing that boundary, it can be incredibly frustrating and confusing…
I also agree with globulous that a lot of women I’ve met either don’t seem to know what they’re looking for or are afraid of the social stigma attached to being with a “timid” guy, so they tend to go for the stereotype of what they think other women will be impressed by — a certain look, a cocky attitude, a certain profession. I have even talked to a few of my female friends about why a lot of women actually seem to go for the “player” type guys even when they know full well that a particular guy has a reputation for being a womanizer or a jerk in some way, and the consistent answer that I seem to be getting is that women think that if THEY turn out to be the one to get a cocky, “player” type of guy to “settle down”, then it will make them feel like they are super-special — that the womanizing guy thought that THEY were so great that he didn’t want anyone else anymore. Of course, none of them could give me an example of anyone they know who this had actually happened to, but…I guess I can sort of understand the mentality. It’s like a risk to take where the payoff would be huge in their eyes if it all works out, and if not, well, at least it was fun while it lasted and they can enjoy trashing the guy to all their girlfriends.
Oops…I meant to say:
(Of course, later on, the relationships never worked out…but the guys got what they wanted…and maybe to some degree, the women did too.)
I’ve obsrerved (ancient Californian for “observed’) that there are at least four tracks or types of people in relationships. You have the serial dater/relationship jumper track. Here, the people involved seem to have a new relationship on a regular basis. But they eventually do end with a relationship (marriage, what-have-you).
Then you have the long relationship where the relationships are long-term but few. Then there’s the opposite, the short-term relationships with gaps of “singleness”. But both end with a relationship (marriage, what-have-you).
The final track is permanent bachelorhood. Here people have short relationships with long, and I mean long, gaps of being single. The “Player” doesn’t dall into this track. The relationships here are very few. What makes this different from track three is that there is no final relationship. This is precisely the track I’m on. While I wouldn’t say no to a relationship, I’m not looking for one. I’m fine being “alone”.
As harsh as it sounds, I think that there are some of us who are meant to be single. I’ve seen people bounce from relationship to relationship, or stay in long-term relationships, or have gaps between their relationships. I’ve also seen people barely date at all. In fact, that’s where I fall. I’m not saying that’s where anyone here falls into, just my $.02 cents of pontification.
You could always just go to a bar and pick up a pub slut.
Failing that you should try a holiday in Thailand or the Philipiians. If those girls don’t make you feel like a bronz god, nothing will.
anonaman: Very tempting, but I guess what always stops me in those situations is that I’d be worried about picking something else up that would last a lot longer than the one night stand, if you get my drift. Guess that means I’m not yet suicidal, which is good.
Leo: Much to my parents’ dismay, I pretty much have the same outlook that you do. 99% of the time, I do feel just fine being “alone”, and often, I am actually glad that I can do whatever I want whenever I want and not have to answer to anybody. But…there is that 1% of the time when I meet someone really extraordinary who makes me start to question whether I am wasting my life by not interacting more. The “catch 22″ I guess is that because I have not been “practicing” the dating game enough, I usually end up freaking the girl out by trying to be too perfect out of the fear of blowing my big chance with someone special. I think people who date a lot tend to become a bit more desensitized to the point where they view the process as more of a social exercise than a make-it-or-break-it situtation. The last girl I had a crush on was one of those people. She would often have 3 or 4 dates in a week or sometimes even 2 on the same night, and I think I just really had a hard time accepting that even though I felt like I was genuinely trying to impress her and be a great friend, I was basically just another time killer. Rather than being overly sympathetic about all her bad dates, I finally started being more like “well, what did you expect?” and she ended up giving me the boot for being “too critical”!
Bionicroach:
“She would often have 3 or 4 dates in a week or sometimes even 2 on the same night, and I think I just really had a hard time accepting that even though I felt like I was genuinely trying to impress her and be a great friend”
Why didn’t you just shag her, like everyone else?
Hey Gregg, since you’re in Tokyo, check out http://www.destinajapan.com. Don’t know what their fees are like in Japan, but they were pretty reasonable here in Calif. I’ve met some very nice women through them, although no Ms. Right so far.
anonaman:
“Why didn’t you just shag her, like everyone else?”
Good question. At this point, I wish I would have. I had plenty of chances — she’s one of those girls who goes CRAZY after a few drinks (think Snoop Dogg DVD) and I actually had to walk away a few times because I knew it was just the alcohol talking since in she had never expressed any interest in starting a relationship while in a sober state. While I thought this was the respectful thing to do, it was entirely the wrong approach because it seems that she is the type who is so used to people immediately reacting to her in a sexual way that when someone doesn’t, she is actually INSULTED by it!
Now, there’s all this awkward tension in the air that there’s no recovering from. Oh well…live and learn.
It seems that most people can recognize that a relationship is not going to happen, shrug, and just cut their losses and take whatever fun they can get at the time, but I have trouble doing this. I get emotionally attached and feel like the sex alone isn’t worth it — it gets too messy if either (A) You actually don’t like the person that much but they get the impression that you REALLY like them. Or, (B) the reverse, You really, really like the person but they don’t want to commit to you…
“All I want is a little encouragement in the form of like even trying to accomidate me asking them out.”
You’re absolutely right. If they can’t show a little interest, then why pursue them. Sorry for calling you timid.
Well, meeting someone at a bar may not be as bad as you think. I have once been involved with someone I met at a club (Music Factory in SF-FYI). We both had very low expectations for relationships starting from a club, but we really hit it off well. Though it ended, to this day, I’m still glad I had met him, and though he had his faults, I also will remember a lot of good things about him, and he will always have my respect… Alright, I’m just bubbling, so I’ll stop here…
Good luck, and good luck to me!
Speed dating can be a lot of fun. You get to meet a lot of people over a short period of time, and you get to find out after the event if you’d have another round of date/s with at least one of the people you’ve speed dated. This is an opportunity where maybe you’ll be able to find someone you could get seriously involved with.
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